License upgrades are a scam

General discussions about Little Snitch
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Re: License upgrades are a scam

Post by ratty » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:16 pm

Wow. You guys won't cough up 40$ but will spend thousands on lawsuits! Think I found the Americans here. If you do go ahead with the class action suit, please let me part of it. Not bcz I think you'll win bcz it'll so much fun watching you guys get a taste of the harsh realities.

Even if you do win, it won't set any example of bring about any change. World is moving towards a subscription model bcz it makes more revenue. You'd understand it if you guys owned a company.

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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:02 am

Re: License upgrades are a scam

Post by mcgroarty » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:30 pm

If anyone is upset about the price, understand that:

* macOS is a much smaller market than Windows. The potential customer base is small.
* Very few people take network security seriously. Most macOS users even scoff at antivirus software. The potential customer base just got smaller.
* Very few of the tiny number of remaining people will run across Little Snitch. This is the very definition of a niche market.

With that in mind, we're not talking about a lot of sales to support Little Snitch. Now...

* Little Snitch also runs as a kernel extension
* Kernel developers are not cheap, and have countless other opportunities
* Kernel extensions require recurring maintenance work around every OS release, representing development cost that traditional apps do not
* Apple's security model is borderline hostile to third-party kernel extension developers, sometimes requiring extensive additional work on short notice

And yet...

* Little Snitch has a UI that makes network filtering and traffic analysis simple enough for even hobbyists to understand
* Even the best Windows and $10,000 dedicated network appliance tools have not accomplished this

A premium, high-maintenance tool for the tiniest niche market? It's a wonder that Little Snitch exists at all. It would be completely reasonable for EVERY macOS update to require a new paid update.

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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:59 am

Re: License upgrades are a scam

Post by AlexKR » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:15 pm

To everyone trying to defend these business practices, for whatever reason:

1. Yes we know that the app is good, that's why I bought it in the first place.
2. Yes we also know and appreciate the work that goes making into an app like this, again that's why I bought the license in the first place - to support the devs. As someone pointed out before, there are unfortunately others way on the internet that this software can be acquired.
3. No, we don't lectures how software development and licensing works as this is not standard "industry practice" - even the biggest and most greedy corps like MS don't handle it like that. If I have MS office 2013 I'm not forced to upgrade to 2k16 and repurchase a license without warning. I can, if I want to have all the newest bells and whistles, but 2013 will still do the job for at least 10 years.
4. You can argue with a paying customers as much as you want - you won't get a better result if customers feels cheated. Thats business ABC. Customers that took their time to register on this forum and write a post to voice their concern should be appreciated, not shunned and portrayed as some unknowing nimwits by other users without any answer by an official company rep.

I bought a license a couple of years ago. Then Mojave gets released and as usually, I go ahead and update - no, I even waiting for a couple of weeks for eventual hotfixes to be released. As LS has been a trusty companion running in the background, I've never even thought that there might be an issue after the update.
Rebooting my MAC, I get a warning that LS 3.x isn't compatible anymore and that I would need to update - Fine, why not?! Auto-update does the job, uninstalls 3.x and after another reboot - "Please upgrade your license". First thought was that it might be an issue with my existing license not being recognized. NOPE!
Without any advance warning, communication email etc.: I just get asked to re-buy a license for a program I already paid good money for.

Is it illegal? Probably not, OD isn't that stupid. Is it shady AF business practice - You can be damn sure it is.
OD won't be going out of business because of this, but guys, you're alienating customers and in my case, a vocal advocate for an otherwise amazing piece of software.

Yes, I get it, every business needs to make money, but there are other ways you can do so. So I don't want to leave without some feedback:

- Be more transparent with how your licensing model works. If it's already buried in some legal wall of text, change that and be abundantly clear what the customer is buying.
- Since the damage is done already, offer compatibility with the latest MAC OS for older licenses. Upgrading to 4.x with all it's new features would still need to be purchased.
- Consider offering a subscription based model as an alternative.
- Something like this could have been handled much better in terms of communication. Give your user base advance notice. Mojave beta was available for a quite a long time before release. You knew well in advance that the old version wouldn't be compatible with Mojave anymore. Your social network accounts are literally dead for todays standard. Use email extensively. You're are in the software business goddamit.

As for me - I'm out for now. 25 Euros is not the issue here, I've spent much much larger sums on software, in fact I spend more monthly on SAAS subscriptions. In light of opaque business ethics and a matter of principle, I'll refrain of spending on any further forced upgrades.

P.S.: People like user "ratty" talk as if they knew something but their posts are inaccurate, don't contribute to the discussion and sound as if you have a vested interest. And please, just stop with the provincial German/Austrian anti-americanism - that's a sad last resort argument from someone with no real arguments. It's not in fashion anymore and just shows your own ignorance. Just. Stop. Thank you.


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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Re: License upgrades are a scam

Post by aintnosnitch » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 pm

Wow.....just, wow. I registered just to comment on this thread.

I'm wondering how many people complaining about the version change and upgrade license with v4 Mojave actually took the time to inventory all of their applications, then go and find out which ones were a) compatible/functional in Mojave, b) if not yet functional, what the timeline/issues were, and c) which apps might require a paid license upgrade.

1. I mean seriously, for those who were "surprised" by the need to upgrade and buy an upgrade license, how do you upgrade your OS without confirming the status of licensing and functionality for all of your applications beforehand? I waited 3 months to be sure all of my critical applications were confirmed working on Mojave before upgrading.

2. Who's forcing you to continue using LS? Do it all from the terminal if you don't want to pay for it. This is the most simple, elegant and powerful firewall tool that almost anyone can understand and use.

3. Having used LS since v1, only 3 paid upgrades over the life of the product is extremely fair, especially when it simplifies such a critical function, AND DOESN'T SPY ON ME, SERVE UP ADS, OR SELL ME OUT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!


5. Have a wonderful day.

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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:51 pm

Re: License upgrades are a scam

Post by stuzza » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:06 pm

Registered just to add a "plus one"

[For what it's worth!]

Some people are missing the point here. I've been using LittleSnitch since day one and I've paid for two upgrades so far [from 1 > 2 and then from 2 > 3] so I don't begrudge paying for what is a great app. But this time I'm going to look elsewhere. I was quite happy with V3 and, although the new Network Monitor window in V4 is very pretty and all that, I don't *need* it and, as money is tight at the moment, I wasn't planning to upgrade any time soon.

Of course, as with everyone else, I had no idea that upgrading to OSX Mojave would actually break LittleSnitch or that, when I clicked to upgrade to V4, I'd be required to pay again. So, I also feel cheated.

By all means offer V4 with the nice new features for people that want them. But I think it's pretty crappy to just leave everyone who ponied up for V3 abandoned. You could at least release a patch for V3 that allowed us to continue using it with Mojave. That's what most honourable software companies do, when an OSX upgrade breaks their app.

Additionally. And this is a minor detail but also annoying. The "discounted" upgrade price is quoted in the website text as $25. But, logging in from a European IP, I get offered it for €25. Which, at today's exchange rate, is $28,50. So, not only are you trying to force us into a paid upgrade in order to be able to continue to use software we've already paid for –you're also ripping your European customers off by an additional $3,50 by converting $ to € at a one for one exchange rate.

All very shabby indeed!

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