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Keyboard shortcut conflict for Show Index in LB5

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:26 am
by Jono
Now that we have Quick Look in LaunchBar it looks like there's a keyboard shortcut conflict with activating Quick Look (⌘Y) & showing LaunchBar's index (also ⌘Y).

I guess we could change the index shortcut to ⌘I, or remove the ⌘Y shortcut for Quick Look (so we'd only have the space bar to activate it), or make them customisable. Or is there already another keyboard shortcut to bring up the Index?

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:03 pm
by ludwigschubert
Yes, the shortcuts conflict :)
I like your suggestion: use ⌘I for the index.

However, you can submit an official feature request to Objective Development here.
They might or might not read the forums at the moment, so this seems the better way to send bugs etc. you've found in the beta.

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:00 pm
by norbert
There is already a new shortcut for the Show Index command, but LaunchBar's gear wheel menu wrongly shows the old shortcut. This will be fixed in the next beta.

The correct (new) shortcut is ⌥⌘I

We cannot use ⌘I, since it's already used by the Get Info command.

Note also that the shortcut for the Show in Index command (used to reveal the currently selected item in the index) has changed from to ⌥⌘Y to ⇧⌘I, since the former is now used for the new Slideshow command (which opens Quick Look in full screen).

We've changed these shortcuts in order to provide consistent Quick Look shortcuts, same as those used in Finder and some other apps that support Quick Look.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:06 am
by Jono
So there's already a new shortcut in there? (⌥⌘I) Cool, thanks.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:51 pm
by ludwigschubert
Yes, the new shortcut already works... (if that wasn't a rhetorical question :) )
We'll get used to it, I guess one can give it up for the sake of consistency.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:39 pm
by sjk
ludwigschubert wrote:We'll get used to it, I guess one can give it up for the sake of consistency.

I concur, and already prefer ⌥⌘I to ⌘Y anyway. :)

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:46 am
by ludwigschubert
Yeah, sjk… you're right!
Only two days after I wrote the last post I've already caught myself using it alot.
Somehow ⌥⌘I is more intuitive for an Index than ⌘Y for an… Yndex I guess.

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:20 am
by rhywun
Hm. Weirdly, I did not know that ⌘Y is a shortcut for Quicklook in Finder. I've only ever used the space bar :)

Anyway, like someone else said, I guess I'll get used to the new shortcut. (Launching Quicklook by mistake a few more times will do that.)

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:12 pm
by sjk
I've never used the ⌘Y Quick Look shortcut in Finder either since Space is so easy and obvious.

Re: Keyboard shortcut conflict for Show Index in LB5

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:45 pm
by AmberV
Some feedback on the switch to using spacebar for quicklook. I believe this puts the feature into an habitual conflict with folder navigation. We've always been able to descend into folders with the spacebar, making rapid navigation of deep folders cake. Having quicklook bound to the same key, but on a different file type, means for me anyway, a flurry of unintentional quicklook windows whenever I'm in a folder hierarchy I'm not intimately familiar with. It seems I operate faster than the computer, and routinely use spacebar to "hunt" for folder hits before my eyes can scan the list. Now, that means as said, a blizzard of quicklook windows. The problem with this is that it seems rather difficult to modify this behaviour. It isn't like an ordinary menu item that the user can adjust themselves. I suppose I could just get used to Ctrl-key navigation if you feel strongly about it. It isn't quite as "thoughtless" as spacebar navigation though.

Re: Keyboard shortcut conflict for Show Index in LB5

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:11 pm
by sjk
AmberV wrote:I believe this puts the feature into an habitual conflict with folder navigation.

In LB5?

I didn't know Space could be a shortcut for folder navigation anywhere. That's counter-intuitive to me compared to using arrow keys shortcuts (for example).

Re: Keyboard shortcut conflict for Show Index in LB5

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:40 pm
by AmberV
That's is how it is in 4 and 5, yes. Try it; select a folder or document type group and hit spacebar. I couldn't imagine relying on the arrow keys for navigation. What a lot of hand movement for something that can be instantly done with the spacebar while typing.

It might be unintuitive if you've never used the spacebar as a widget activator. With full keyboard access on, you can hit space to "click" on a selected widget. Spacebar has long meant "activate" in the Mac world, with "Enter" for confirm all and Cmd-dot or Esc for cancel all. Same goes for web browsing. To submit a form, I hit tab twice and then spacebar.

It's Apple that went a bit wild when they turned it into a quicklook access. That makes no sense given its precedent.

Re: Keyboard shortcut conflict for Show Index in LB5

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:02 am
by sjk
Okay, now I understand what you mean. But aren't you assuming that the first folder is the one you want to enter by tapping Space? What if you want to navigate to a different folder at the same level? In general, arrow keys seem more obvious for navigation in a variety of contexts.

And I more commonly think of Return as "activate" than Space, especially considering how they behave when typing in a Terminal shell, etc. For simplicity's sake, let's consider Enter and Return as equivalent in this context though they can certainly be different.

Not knowing the precedent, using Space as a Quick Look shortcut immediately felt natural to me.

Re: Keyboard shortcut conflict for Show Index in LB5

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:00 pm
by AmberV
But aren't you assuming that the first folder is the one you want to enter by tapping Space?


No. Again, I cannot imagine leaving the home row to use arrow keys when the selection of a folder is a simple matter of reducing the list to one, via alphanumeric filtering---the whole and primary advantage of an application like LaunchBar.

Example:

Cmd-Space/doc/space/ofb/space/0420/cmd-return

Navigates to, selects, and opens in the Finder the first OmniFocus backup from today. It takes, literally, 1-2 seconds to do that since I'm typing in most of that "blind" without reading a single bit of LB feedback. This blind area is where space=QUICKLOOK all of the sudden, becomes an issue. I'm practically subconsciously weeding down the list to one by using the spacebar to "confirm" guesses ever two or three letters (when I don't have the navigation string memorised).

Since these secondary abbreviations are learned by LB in a subsidiary fashion (they do not conflict with top-level abbreviations) you can drill down through six or ten folders all by barely adding a few split seconds to the total command time if you know where you are going. I can move files from 10-deep to 5-deep without even thinking about it.

I realise that trudging through lists with the arrow keys is more intuitive, but it is hardly more efficient. LB in general is not intuitive. One doesn't expect access to the entire file system, and in many special cases entire application's data nodes, as a flat entry-point based on partial string matching until one gets used to that concept. Hindering the effectiveness of a highly efficient accessing mechanism in order to match Finder's QuickLook seems to me, rather banal.

It's just QuickLook, a mediocre preview mechanism that Apple used to sell copies of Leopard. ;)

So more intuitive, sure I agree. But it's like going back to the distressingly inefficient Finder for *all* navigation if all you use are arrow keys---it's actually even worse because in Finder you can always start typing in a name to jump to it. LB just takes that to the next level by allowing non-linear filtering and habitual memorising, and then reducing the access command from a two-key opposite-side-of-keyboard affair to a single tap of the spacebar.