Forced update expensive for previous supporters?

General discussions about Little Snitch
privacy47

Forced update expensive for previous supporters?

Post by privacy47 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:44 am

First, I would like to mention that other shareware products, like Cocktail, offer Free Lifetime updates.
Second, I would like to point out that it seems that this update will be REQUIRED for compatibility with OS 10.5, when it is finally released.
I have no problem with the feature set in version 1 of Little Snitch. Will there also be an update of that version for compatibility with OS 10.5?
Or, will the developer be asking for another upgrade fee every time Apple makes an update?
Does anybody else think the developer of Little Snitch is being greedy?
Perhaps a $5 to $10 upgrade fee would be more reasonable for supporters of your shareware.
You have gotten at least 10 registration purchases as a result of my recommendations. Now I have to explain that they have to pay more money for an upgrade. This makes me look bad for recommending poorly supported shareware from a greedy developer.
Perhaps you can lower the price of the upgrade. Or, at least, promise to continue to support version 1 for people who honestly purchased it.

macman

I agree.

Post by macman » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:03 am

I agree.

Fair Enough

Disagree

Post by Fair Enough » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:17 am

The developer has always been fair about upgrades. No one is requiring users to upgrade to Leopard; so for some there is no requirement to upgrade to the newest version of LS. Free-for-life upgrades equate to developers eventually going out of business.

You learn in life that what is fair for both parties works best in the long run.

I dare you to ask Apple why they are charging for Leopard.

However, this is nothing new as every time a new Mac OS rolls around these very same questions always surface. I have bought umpteen Apple computers, and every Mac OS since its inception. I never once contacted Apple demanding that Apple should give me a free system because I am loyal Apple user. I have gotten many a person to buy a Mac as well.

Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:47 am

Just one thing:

Don't compare Little Snitch to Cocktail, which is a just a nice GUI for simple shell commands.

askywallker

Post by askywallker » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:00 am

Now I have to explain that they have to pay more money for an upgrade. This makes me look bad for recommending poorly supported shareware from a greedy developer.


Wow - greedy developer because they are charging money for their work? I think greedy is far too strong - as users of their software we need them to be continuing to invest in their products - and they need money to to that. We all have to eat!

You learn in life that what is fair for both parties works best in the long run.

Nicely said Fair Enough. Little Snitch is not the type of app that can be written and then 'milked' for years without any ongoing work. There needs to be a steady income flow for this ongoing development work. If you choose to give Apple your money for a new OS, you need to factor in other costs (even though the Apple commercials would like you to think not).

privacy47

Post by privacy47 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:14 am

Both Little Snitch and Cocktail are SHAREWARE. That means an individual programmer putting out software with no guarantee. And an email address as support.

These companies can vanish overnight. They are not required to continue support as a real company does.

They should appreciate the people who send them money, taking a chance that the software could be useless a week later.

Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:23 am

[quote="askywallker"] Wow - greedy developer because they are charging money for their work?


I gave the developer money. And recommended the program to others who gave MONEY.

Why is the developer asking for MORE money? You don't think that is greedy?

Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:37 am

[quote="Fair Enough"] I dare you to ask Apple why they are charging for Leopard.

Since you don't seem to know, Jobs has already announced that Leopard will cost $129.

It is a shame that there is not an upgrade available for those who bought Tiger.

However, this is not a forum to complain about Apple products. Please stick to the topic.

askyalker

Post by askyalker » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:05 am

I gave the developer money. And recommended the program to others who gave MONEY.

Why is the developer asking for MORE money? You don't think that is greedy?


I think you should be grateful that the developer is making the investment to make sure that his application works well under the new OS.

At what point do you think that you got fair value for your $25? After 2 OS upgrades? 5? 25? I hope that the majority of good developers can do their best to avoid these pitfalls of 'Upgrades for life'. They are a recipe for bankruptcy - using the shallow, short-sighted 'live for the now' attitude that will more than likely result in abandoned projects. I do really like the 'Software as a Service' model - offering regular updates/patches and support for an annual fee - this provides a sustainable and 'forecastable' revenue stream for the developer, and a model for the users to 'push' their software suppliers to keep improving and delivering exceptional support.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - but I would STRONGLY defend a software developer that is charging $25 for a small application and being called 'greedy'. Maybe your next logic step will take you to: "My Mac died and I bought a Windows machine - but the developer wanted to charge me to make a version for Windows. How is that fair? I paid him MONEY, and he wants more. GREEDY!'.

Ok.. maybe I am being stupid - or still living in the Windows world (I have only used a Mac for a week and a half). Maybe this OS update is more like a Service Pack than it is a different OS? If so, then I would be more sympathetic to your point. But, in my opinion, if you are giving money to Apple for a new OS - you should expect to spread the wealth for tools that must be rewritten or updated for this new OS.

BravoAlpha
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Re: Forced update expensive for previous supporters?

Post by BravoAlpha » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:05 am

privacy47 wrote:Does anybody else think the developer of Little Snitch is being greedy?

No.

privacy47

Post by privacy47 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:12 am

I think you should be grateful that the developer is making the investment to make sure that his application works well under the new OS.

Are you the developer? That would be a shame that the developer logs in as a guest to defend his/her software. (Too bad I don't see the developer pitching in to these forums.) For arguments sake, I will assume you are not.
At what point do you think that you got fair value for your $25? After 2 OS upgrades? 5? 25?

If this "upgrade" was under $10, I would have already used my credit card to buy it. But, the price of $12.95 is more than half the original cost. Bringing the cost of this software to $37.90 ($24.95 + $12.95). More than I usually spend for shareware.
Of course, the three dollars I am complaining about isn't much, but I am questioning if I will be FORCED to "upgrade" again soon. I will wait till Leopard is released before I "upgrade". ObDev may have vanished by then.
but I would STRONGLY defend a software developer that is charging $25

I have no problem with the $25 cost of Little Snitch. It is the FORCED $12.95 "upgrade" fee that I am quesioning.
Ok.. maybe I am being stupid - or still living in the Windows world (I have only used a Mac for a week and a half).

What? This is a Mac program. Have you only bought this software this week? Then you aren't paying for the upgrade. Perhaps you might be more upset if you were.
....And, why do you seem to know so much about the development of Little Snitch after only "a week and a half"? Are you the developer?

privacy47

Post by privacy47 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:37 am

Maybe your next logic step will take you to: "My Mac died and I bought a Windows machine - but the developer wanted to charge me to make a version for Windows. How is that fair? I paid him MONEY, and he wants more. GREEDY!'.

Just so you don't think I am a complainer, I would like to give you some helpful advice. You are a recent switcher to the Mac. As a Mac user since 1990, I can help you.
Get out the installer disks for whatever programs you own. Put them into your new Mac. Very often you will find there is a Mac installer. You never noticed it because the Mac partition is invisible on a PC (and vice-versa).
The same serial number for the PC usually works for the Mac version. Very few companies charge separately for Mac and PC software these days. Although, some companies do refuse to make a Mac version. :-(
You will find exceptions to my advice, but mostly you will find it is true.
Enjoy the software.

dissapointed
Posts: 1
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Re: Forced update expensive for previous supporters?

Post by dissapointed » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:41 pm

privacy47 wrote:First, I would like to mention that other shareware products, like Cocktail, offer Free Lifetime updates.
Perhaps you can lower the price of the upgrade. Or, at least, promise to continue to support version 1 for people who honestly purchased it.


Transmit, IDefrag ....... others to name a few. I used a cracked Snitch for some time. It was VG. I bought it. ALL 0.5MB of it!

Now, I am asked to pay more for 1 MB of A BETA!

I think I will go back to sourcing it elsewhere!!

:cry:

askywalker
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:22 am

Post by askywalker » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:30 pm

Are you the developer? That would be a shame that the developer logs in as a guest to defend his/her software. (Too bad I don't see the developer pitching in to these forums.) For arguments sake, I will assume you are not.

No. I am a user - one that has expressed frustration in this forum about the lack of responses from ObjDev on this forum.
I have no problem with the $25 cost of Little Snitch. It is the FORCED $12.95 "upgrade" fee that I am quesioning.

I simply do not understand how this is a forced 'upgrade' fee. You can keep using Snitch on your computer without upgrading can't you? The only time you would need to upgrade is if you changed your OS?
What? This is a Mac program. Have you only bought this software this week? Then you aren't paying for the upgrade. Perhaps you might be more upset if you were.
....And, why do you seem to know so much about the development of Little Snitch after only "a week and a half"? Are you the developer?


I shouldn't have mentioned Windows - that was a poor example. As far as I know this company makes Mac software. I only heard of Objective Development about a week ago. I didn't mean to intrude on this discussion - I should be minding my own business - you are right - I don't have to pay an upgrade price and am not really qualified to criticize long term users. My apologies.

As a Mac noob I appreciate your advice - thanks. :)

FredB
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Post by FredB » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:56 pm

Both Little Snitch and Cocktail are SHAREWARE. That means an individual programmer putting out software with no guarantee. And an email address as support.

These companies can vanish overnight. They are not required to continue support as a real company does.

They should appreciate the people who send them money, taking a chance that the software could be useless a week later.


Where did you find this definition of shareware?
The one I find is "A type of software that is distributed without payment but is limited in any combination of functionality, availability, or convenience."

And btw, did you read a little about Objective Development?
Take a look at the contact page, you'll find the address and info about the company. I don't know their exact history but you can find NeXT software that are at least ten years old. Not bad.

Maybe what you describe is the case in the Windows world, but not in the Mac world.
Shareware devs make a great part of the mac experience, in fact shareware are often better than what big corps make. I could write a novel on the problems I had with e.g. Symantec (Norton) products, compared to the efficiency of tools like Disk Warrior, LittleSnitch, SuperDuper!, etc.

If you need more examples, I can give you a lot.

About the upgrade policy:
They sometimes have to get some revenues for new versions. The switch to Intel was free, IIRC, contrarily to Adobe and Microsoft (Not really small devs, uh?).
Os X evolves and changes many internal things often, for me it's a good thing, even if it costs me a little. If you don't need/want to upgrade, you can still use Tiger and LS 1.x as long as you want.

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