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	<title>Objective Development Forums</title>
	
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	<updated>2013-12-13T21:56:44+02:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Objective Development Forums]]></name></author>
	<id>https://forums.obdev.at/app.php/feed/topic/8751</id>

		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[blargg]]></name></author>
		<updated>2013-12-13T21:56:44+02:00</updated>

		<published>2013-12-13T21:56:44+02:00</published>
		<id>https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26338#p26338</id>
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		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Using generic signal diodes instead of zeners]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26338#p26338"><![CDATA[
I tried this on another chip, an attiny85 with a 16MHz crystal oscillator, and it fails when I omit one of the diodes, both on a hub and on a PC. So D1-D6 is necessary.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="https://forums.obdev.at/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=20076">blargg</a> — Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:56 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[blargg]]></name></author>
		<updated>2013-11-28T08:25:10+02:00</updated>

		<published>2013-11-28T08:25:10+02:00</published>
		<id>https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26261#p26261</id>
		<link href="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26261#p26261"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Using generic signal diodes instead of zeners]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26261#p26261"><![CDATA[
Interesting point. I might take a look at the levels for the special states where both are high. I also need to check the USB standard to see what the limits are and which count of diodes is best in the middle.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="https://forums.obdev.at/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=20076">blargg</a> — Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:25 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[cpldcpu]]></name></author>
		<updated>2013-11-28T05:24:39+02:00</updated>

		<published>2013-11-28T05:24:39+02:00</published>
		<id>https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26260#p26260</id>
		<link href="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26260#p26260"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Using generic signal diodes instead of zeners]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26260#p26260"><![CDATA[
This works better due to the differential signaling. I both signals were high at the same time, you would see an increase in voltage.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="https://forums.obdev.at/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=20062">cpldcpu</a> — Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:24 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[blargg]]></name></author>
		<updated>2013-11-26T09:15:03+02:00</updated>

		<published>2013-11-26T09:15:03+02:00</published>
		<id>https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26256#p26256</id>
		<link href="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26256#p26256"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Using generic signal diodes instead of zeners]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="https://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=8751&amp;p=26256#p26256"><![CDATA[
Using generic signal diodes instead of zeners<br /><br />I work on a tight budget and don't have 3.6V zener diodes (low-current or otherwise) and wanted to build the hardware side of V-USB myself (so far I've only programmed with V-USB on USBASP programmers by reprogramming them with my own programs). I decided to try using several generic small-signal diodes (1N914 or similar) in series to get the proper voltage drop. I tried with four and five in series and they seem to work fine. Here's the schematic:<br /><br /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/dWu7KSl.jpg" class="postimage" alt="Image" /><br /><br />The capacitance should be good (low) because capacitors in series give a lower capacitance than any of the individual capacitors. The formula is Ctotal = 1/(1/C1 + 1/C2 + ...). So we get 1/5 the capacitance of an individual diode on each USB line.<br /><br />I have both USB lines share all but the last diode (D1 and D2), saving four diodes. I also tested with D6 eliminated, lowering the voltage slightly.<br /><br />I looked at the voltages on a scope to be sure they were clamping well. First, the voltages from my USBASP programmer, which uses presumably 3.6V zeners (it's the USBASP V2.0 LC Technology version, a small SMT-based one common eBay):<br /><br /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/9tfFzcA.jpg" class="postimage" alt="Image" /><br /><br />On the left half is the host sending data, and on the right is the USBASP responding. It's 2V/division, so the host's signals are about 3.2V, and the USBASP's on the right is about 4.0V. Also the slew rate of the host is noticeably less-steep than the USBASP's response; this gives some measure of capacitance on the line, including whatever the zener diodes contribute.<br /><br />Next, the above circuit:<br /><br /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/NPc4tmf.jpg" class="postimage" alt="Image" /><br /><br />Host signaling is 3.2V still, and my circuit's responses are about 3.8V. Slew rates look similar, so my diode arrangement isn't adding too much capacitance.<br /><br />Finally, the above circuit with D6 eliminated:<br /><br /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/6nf7fbx.jpg" class="postimage" alt="Image" /><br /><br />Now, host signaling is about 3.0V, somewhat attenuated by the diodes. My circuit's response is about 3.2V. Again, slew rate doesn't look much different.<br /><br />Using 4+1 diodes gives closest to the USBASP, but I'm not sure it's the best reference, so maybe 3+1 diodes (D6 eliminated) is better. Regardless, I think this could be another way to build a V-USB device from the parts bin without having to spend a few dollars and a week ordering a couple of low-current zener diodes of the specific voltage (3.6V) needed.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="https://forums.obdev.at/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=20076">blargg</a> — Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:15 am</p><hr />
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